Saving Private Ryan: Private Stanley Mellish (Adam Goldberg)

After researching, I found that the Stug (probably Ausf F variant), in that close proximity to the bell tower, would not have been able to elevate its 75mm main weapon to engage Jackson (the sniper) and his supporting machine gunner in the bell tower. A few other things - I never saw any of the Tiger I (tanks) fire their hull mounted machine guns, which are purposely designed to engage attacking infantry over the frontal arc; the drivers vision block on the tanks is not open, as depicted in the film, they were protected by a layer of bullet-proof glass; Sgt Horvath should have known that fring bazooka rounds at the (second) Tiger turret did not give much chance for a kill, he would have neen better off either retreating wile there was still time or going for the tanks tracks to achieve a mobility kill. Instead the bazooka rounds were ineffective against the Tigers thick frontal armour including the turret. There's more. I'll add to the when they come to mind.

On the subject of Sgt Horvath, his tactics were sound when engaging the Stug (assault gun) from the rear where the armour is thinnest. The Stug was completely destroyed by his bazooka shot. If possible the same tactic should have been used on the second Tiger tank but this was probably impossible since the bridge was being overrun by SS infantry. On Capt Miller, it seems ludicrous that he attempted to retrieve the firing mechanism for blowing the bridge in an upright position, but he was in shell shock, after a close indirect hit from the Tiger's powerful 88mm PaK main gun. Shell shock is a terrible thing and Miller ended up taking a bad chest shot, notably from "Steamboat Wille", who had joined the Das Reich division sometime after being let go at the radar station. Upham eventually took care of him and at that point became a real soldier.

Lastly, on the hand to hand fight between Mellish and the SS Das Reich panzergrenadier that eventually kills him. As I mentioned before, Mellish should have fixed his bayonet which would have given him a better chance of a kill (longer range, better leverage), but he had not. Mellish really only gave himself one good chance against his enemy - the single time he was on top and then drew his bayonet in a flimsy, unsecure grip. When on top he had the opportunity to pin his opponent to the ground by the throat (strangle), get as much weight as he could on him (get lower, laying on him) and gouge out his eyes, rather than staying high and pulling his bayonet in a grip that would make it fairly easy for his opponent to disarm him, which is exactly what happened. You can't fight if you can't see. He could then have used his bayonet to cut or stab at his opponents throat. Mellish remained mounted high on his opponent where his weight was not really advantageous. I am a Ninjutsu practicioner and understand the techniques behind grapple fighting. Mellish was inevitably overturned and had his weapon taken by force from the flimsy grip he had it in, ending up in a very bad position, on his back and mounted by an armed opponent. This is somewhere you never wan't to be. When pinned by the SS soldier toward the end of the fight, Mellish attempted to push the bayonet straight back up, against the entire weight of his opponent, rather that pushing it up and to the side to get the bayonet pointing away from his body. He could also have used a wrist lock to force the German onto his side, giving him another opportunity to get control. He did neither unfortunately. The SS soldier, being bigger and stronger, had only to push down with all his weight and wait for Mellish to tire before ramming the bayonet fatally into his chest, around the heart area. Mellish had few opportunities to defeat his opponent but unfortunately did not make use of them. Another weapon that could have been highly useful in such close combat was Mellishs' entrenching tool, sharpened to a razors edge. Use of these was common practice in the room to room fighting on the Eastern Front (i.e. Stalingrad) and they proved a very deadly adversary. However hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it? That's just my thoughts on the death of Mellish.

...one last thing, not really related to this thread but I'll say it anyway: I feel that the death of Wade (the medic), hit during the frontal assault on the machine gun site at the radar station, was far more tear-jerking than the death of Mellish or anyone else in the movie for that matter. It was a very painful and emotional scene for me to watch. I don't know how anyone else feels about it...

...completely agree with you, David. Wade's gentle nature throughout the movie, his role as the platoon's life-saver, and his calling out for his mother while he bleeds to death all conspire at once to hit you right in the chest. But, oddly enough, the scene that hits me hardest is right after Wade's death, when Cpt. Miller goes off by himself to break down in private by the radar tower.....gets me just about every time.

I totally agree with you dude. After watching Wade die from multiple machine gun hits in the abdomen, painfully, crying out for his mother and begging not to die and to go home (this scene always puts a lump in my throat), I think the enormous weight of responsibility hit Cpt Miller very hard. He must have felt completely helpless watching Wade, gentle natured and caring as you say, fade away as he bled out from his wounds. The little they could do was fill him with morphine to at least give him some respite from his physical pain and fear while slowly dying. Cpt Miller would have felt a terrible weight of responsibility after giving the order for the squad to assault the machine gun nest and losing one of his men in such an awful way. Cpt Miller breaks from the group to a location where he could be alone and ensures that no one sees him release the anguish from all of this, crying and pouring it all out alone as he did. This too, was very emotional to watch and every time I see it I just wish that there was someone who could provide a shoulder to lean on and support him through that terribly emotional time. But Cpt Miller, being selfless and not wanting to shake his squads faith in his leadership, cried and poured it out alone.

I thought I might put in a point of interest, from the German (2nd SS Das Reich) battlegroup point of view, advancing toward the bridge and getting caught in a well laid out ambush prepared by Cpt Miller's squad and the small group of airborne soldiers defending the bridge. The combat was to be 3 dimensional, in that there were firing positions both level with and above the anticipated route of the Germans towards the bridge. Until ammunition was depleted, then being overwhelmed by numbers, Cpt Miller's group was very effective against the advancing Germans. To draw a parallel, during the first Chechen war, a brigade (the Mikop) literally marched into rebel held Grozny with tanks and armoured personnel carriers in column formation. Similarly to Cpt Miller's ambush, the Chechen rebels were waiting for them, with firing positions prepared in the upper floors of buildings, in basements and covered in strongpoints. Rebels in basements and on the upper floors of buildings were completely immune to tank fire. The rebels also had very capable snipers. The T-72 tank could not depress (-) or elevate (+) its 125mm primary weapon to the required angle to engage these rebels. The rebels also had an ace in the form of the RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade). Most likely they were the early model RPG-7, but these may have been complimented by other anti-tank weapons. They likely would also have had RPO-A's (rocket propelled flamethrower) for any troops who attempted to dismount, in addition to machine gun positions and as I mentioned and very capable snipers (so accurate that they could shoot the radio antenna off an APC). In typical column ambush fashion, the rebels first took out the leading and trailing vehicles in the column first to give those in between no room to move or escape. They rained RPG rounds on the tanks and APCs (some tanks were hit 4 or 5 times) and some soldiers destroyed inside their APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier - probably BMP-2/BTR-80) without even firing a shot. At the end of it all, the Mikop brigade ceased to be - they were annihalated to a man. Grozny square was littered with death - Russian bodies and the smokey hulks of burning tanks and APCs. It was a true military disaster. So how to counter this? The Russians learned from this experience and began to mix SPAAGs (Self Propelled Anti Aircraft Guns) in with their armoured columns. At the time the vehicle that fulfilled this role was the ZSU-23-4 Shilka. Armed with a quadruple 23mm gun mount, it was able to bring these fearsome weapons to bear at elevation angles other combat vehicles can not (the Shilka is a purpose designed AA weapon, so its armament must be able to be elevated to high angles for engagement). The quad 23mm guns are liquid cooled, have an extremely high rate of fire and can dispense several types of munition, as dictated by the operation. For the rebels, no longer was it a 100% safe bet to fire with impunity from the upper floors of buildings. Probably the only real weakness of the Shilka is its lack of effective armour protection (i.e. it has very thin armour). The technique of mixing Shilkas with armoured columns did however, prove an effective defence, probably as well as a deterrent. Over time, the Shilka was replaced by the newer Tunguska system which itself was replaced by the latest Pantsir system, which is armed with a mix of AA cannon and SAMs (Surface to Air) missiles. From the Russian experience you've just read, you can see partly why Cpt Miller's ambush was effective until ammunition was depleted and they were overrun due to superior numbers. I hope this little slice of analysis was an engaging read (no pun intended .

its a film

" Mellish should have fixed his bayonet which would have given him a better chance of a kill (longer range, better leverage)" My thoughts exactly. As a death scene, it was brilliantly played out, and I couldn't have done it better myself ...I find myself watching it over and over sometimes. It's so personal...and another thing...if I were Mellish fighting this stout German character, I would have went for my .45 handgun....because he had time to reach to his right and then his left for his knife....damn.... I love your insight on the shit, David.

The above is quite an inspired post and i wish they had people like this directing war movies! Re the elevation thing on the tank, no it couldnt, u had to literally move to direction and fire those things like cannons of old.

Another big historical inaccuraccy was the complete lack of British involvement, i know we werent at Omaha where it really got messy - that beach was like how they thought all of them would have being on the day, but surely we deserved a mention instead of slagging good old monty off when the opportuntity arose!

And no they were seperate Germans so grats on winning your bet, the haircut things quite true too looking at contempary pictures of german forces at the time in Normandy but who knows maybe they actually had barbours out there.