Archetype Criteria - Discuss
Posted by Mr Mouseburger
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Archetype Criteria - Discuss March 30, 2006 06:51PM |
Here is how i derive the archetypes for the movie submissions. It is by no means definitive, so people should feel free to comment, and we can refine the criteria used.
Baddy (Major) = the main villain which derives the success criteria for the films conclusion - only on rare occasions does more than one Baddy (major) appear in films, i would say Return of the Jedi is one, as Luke needs to defeat his father (or turn him back to the good side of the force), and he also needs to defeat the Emperor.
Baddy (Minor) = subsequent villains of Baddy (Major) which are basically bullet fodder for the hero of the film.
Goody (Major) = On occasion Hollywood likes to increase the impact of a film by having the main hero die, usually after or during the films objectives have been completed. An example of this is Braveheart, although personally i would count Wallace as Baddy (Major) as the hero has to be the noble King of England
Goody (Minor) = The henchmen of the hero, most likely to survive and help our hero acheive their goals, but once they start planning to marry their fiance or retire next week, they are as dead as flared trousers. A milder form of pathos than the above.
Ambivalent (Major) = Difficult to describe, but sometimes there is no baddy in a film and once you see things from their perspective it seems like they have a point. For example, Roy Batty is not evil, he just does not want to die, and at the end, though he can kill deckard, he does not, he just expires.
Ambivalent (Minor) = A character who neither helps or hinders the hero/villain of the film, but is integral to the film's progression - Lyssa from Krull is a good example.
Innocent Bystander = none of the above
or more precisely, someone who has little or no involvement in the plot of the film apart from to reinforce just how bad this Baddy really is...
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2006 06:55PM by old bluffer.
Baddy (Major) = the main villain which derives the success criteria for the films conclusion - only on rare occasions does more than one Baddy (major) appear in films, i would say Return of the Jedi is one, as Luke needs to defeat his father (or turn him back to the good side of the force), and he also needs to defeat the Emperor.
Baddy (Minor) = subsequent villains of Baddy (Major) which are basically bullet fodder for the hero of the film.
Goody (Major) = On occasion Hollywood likes to increase the impact of a film by having the main hero die, usually after or during the films objectives have been completed. An example of this is Braveheart, although personally i would count Wallace as Baddy (Major) as the hero has to be the noble King of England
Goody (Minor) = The henchmen of the hero, most likely to survive and help our hero acheive their goals, but once they start planning to marry their fiance or retire next week, they are as dead as flared trousers. A milder form of pathos than the above.
Ambivalent (Major) = Difficult to describe, but sometimes there is no baddy in a film and once you see things from their perspective it seems like they have a point. For example, Roy Batty is not evil, he just does not want to die, and at the end, though he can kill deckard, he does not, he just expires.
Ambivalent (Minor) = A character who neither helps or hinders the hero/villain of the film, but is integral to the film's progression - Lyssa from Krull is a good example.
Innocent Bystander = none of the above
or more precisely, someone who has little or no involvement in the plot of the film apart from to reinforce just how bad this Baddy really is...Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2006 06:55PM by old bluffer.
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Re: Archetype Criteria - Discuss March 30, 2006 07:53PM |
I'm not sure I'm using the same criteria, which could be a problem for the consistency of the MDDB 
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I don't have any problem with multiple Major Villains. The way I decide if someone is major or not is to try and get inside the writer's head and see if they considered the character to be critical to the events of the story. How much power they wield can also be a determining factor.
For example, I would class Gollum as Major Ambivalent, as he is hugely important during the Lord of the Rings' timeframe, despite not having any intrinsic rank or power.
Sauron would be a Major Villain, as even though he isn't directly involved in many scenes, his will is felt throughout the series, and he is also the leader of all the evil forces.
Sticking with the LotR, any of the fellowship could arguably be classed as Major Good, with the possible exception of Pippin and Merry, depending on how important you feel their roles were.
Penn from Under Siege 2 is an example of where we disagree. I think he is a Major Villain, as he isn't in any way deferent to Travis Dane, and he is quite clearly the major physical and tactical threat to Rybeck during the film. In other words, the scriptwriters intended him to be a major character.
OB
.I don't have any problem with multiple Major Villains. The way I decide if someone is major or not is to try and get inside the writer's head and see if they considered the character to be critical to the events of the story. How much power they wield can also be a determining factor.
For example, I would class Gollum as Major Ambivalent, as he is hugely important during the Lord of the Rings' timeframe, despite not having any intrinsic rank or power.
Sauron would be a Major Villain, as even though he isn't directly involved in many scenes, his will is felt throughout the series, and he is also the leader of all the evil forces.
Sticking with the LotR, any of the fellowship could arguably be classed as Major Good, with the possible exception of Pippin and Merry, depending on how important you feel their roles were.
Penn from Under Siege 2 is an example of where we disagree. I think he is a Major Villain, as he isn't in any way deferent to Travis Dane, and he is quite clearly the major physical and tactical threat to Rybeck during the film. In other words, the scriptwriters intended him to be a major character.
OB